Caffeine, Culture Shock, and the Girl Who Didn’t Fit In (Utah Edition)

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Kinda Preachy. I'm Steph Moore and I'm with Casey Bryant. And man, another week, another podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

And we are, can I just say before we do anything else, like I'm what we I'm getting ready for what you're gonna do? I have no idea.

SPEAKER_03 0:23

I know you, I know you don't. I so last week we had our record number of listeners. I know. Um, which I was shocked. Blew my mind. Yes, and me saying I got rejected by an entire friend group. So many of you guys would like be captivated by these stories. Um we're so glad our pain, you know, you can relate to it or at least feel sorry for us.

unknown 0:48

I know.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Someone can't someone came up to me and gave me a hug and said, I would have hugged you if I would have seen you at Costco. I'm like, oh thank you. I'll take your hug now. Of course, when they saw me, I looked full, yeah, full on makeup, full on, so I look decent.

SPEAKER_03 1:03

I know. And I will say you look great today, too. Your full makeup today.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

I am full makeup. Well, I had a meeting prior.

SPEAKER_03 1:08

Yeah, you look nice.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

So thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:10

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:10

Um with my that part of that is am I happy though? If we go with the happy crappy. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay. So part of that is I the past two days I've had compliments on my hair. Like, Casey, your hair looks incredible, like, which is great, love it. And I'm like, oh, it's oh natural because I haven't had a job in six months, and I haven't colored my hair in the world.

SPEAKER_03 1:31

It's really doing this really like good like ombre thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

It right now it is. I'm like, so this is all natural, and at this point in time, I'm like, I'm just keeping it. I'm like, there's no point of me because I think I try coloring it for so long, and maybe platinum and going really blonde because I was thinking that made me younger, which I don't need to be any younger. I get it. I get it. So I'm embracing my natural color.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

I love that for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

I know. I was very, very happy to hear.

SPEAKER_03 1:58

You're happy that you've gotten to see people, that you've gotten compliments. I like it with my hair. We'll we'll take it.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Well, we'll take it. What do you have? What anything exciting happened to you this week?

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Um, I will say, um I mean, I hate to keep bringing up like the weight losses.

SPEAKER_00 2:14

I know, but you but it's so awesome.

SPEAKER_03 2:16

But I had to buy new pants, and that was pretty exciting.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

That is exciting, except for I hate shopping.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

Well, I ordered them online.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Okay, even better.

SPEAKER_03 2:24

And uh let me can I be honest? I bought I was Christmas shopping for my daughter, and so I bought her a size large, and I looked at them and I'm looking at I'm like, I knew I needed to buy something new, and I'm like, I'm just gonna try these on.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 2:36

And the pants that I bought for my 21-year-old daughter fit.

SPEAKER_00 2:40

And your daughter is tiny.

SPEAKER_03 2:42

Yeah, she I mean, yeah. I mean, l I I for reference, I was an XXL in 1820 as my husband, so I think he tried to put it lovingly, told me that I had stretched my pants out beyond what they were meant to be stretched.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

He did not.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Oh, he did, he did.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

Did you talk to him after that?

unknown 3:02

I listen.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

I mean, I know he's probably trying to, as you said, say it lovingly in a very supportive way. Like, it's this an affirmation sandwich where he tells you something good, then tells you something negative and tells you something wrong.

SPEAKER_03 3:19

No, honestly, he was saying no, I'm not sure. I hate the affirmation. You were making so much progress, it's just you probably had these stretched, you know, you're not gonna see the progress in these pants because they were stretched maybe then more than they should have been. Okay, I see where you go with it. I see where he was going. It didn't sting any less. It did not land well. It did not. No.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Um He's listening to this and going, uh oh. Buy her flowers, Mike.

SPEAKER_03 3:45

Also, also, I'll just say this on the happy side. Um, I said something. Matt and I were driving somewhere last night, and he said something about our podcast last week.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

He did.

SPEAKER_03 3:58

And I said, Oh, you listened last week? And he goes, I listen every week.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

He does. And I was like, He's better than my husband. I don't think Doug has listened yet. Oh, and he I think he's too afraid of what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

Matt is pitching this. He said, I think in the new year, he said, I'd like to go out to dinner with Doug. Oh. And he said, we want to have a boy side of this. Oh, a flip side of the husbands of kinda preachy, of what it's like being married to strong women who've worked in ministry, going through perimenopause.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

I know. He's like, Who knows what's coming out of our mouths?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

And he goes, Do you guys want to? He goes, Do you want to be in on that? And I'm like, I don't know if I want to air that.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Well, I think I kind of want to air that.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

I kind of think it would be kind of fun. So, Doug, if you're willing, um Matt is game and he would like um I like this. I like some camaraderie.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Okay, let's do it. Whether Doug wants to or not, he's gonna do it. He just God love him. He just goes along with whatever I say.

SPEAKER_03 4:59

I know, I know. I just thought it was so cute, and I was like, oh I'm I'm I I'm afraid of what would be said about us.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

I mean, I I mean they would say it very positively, I think.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Yes. So I I took so I took my progress pictures because every time like I love what we feel like so. This is what we do. This is what we know. We are a revolving merry garound of thoughts. We always come back.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Um not always on our own. Sometimes one of us has got to rain each other and okay, look, we're doing it again. Okay, so looking at your progress or pictures.

SPEAKER_03 5:35

I take the progress pictures and I'm like, wow, like this is like every time I'm like astonished, like, okay, I've been working hard, it's like really working. And I put them in my Instagram story. I don't put them anywhere else, you know. I'm like, those will go away in 24 hours, and like it's just it keeps me accountable. I love that you do. And there's that, and it's you know, it is what it is. Um, and I know a lot of people are kind of following that, me there for that. And like, you're not gonna find them on Facebook. There's not gonna be an album where you can like click through it, you know. But um Abby, my youngest, she looks at it and she goes, Mom, booty. And I was like, That's right. I'm like, is this good booty, bad booty? I don't really really know what's happening because somebody else told me I had a Zempic butt. What does that mean? Apparently you lose all your muscle tone when you take a GLP one and like you and um and I said it is interesting.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Because you already have a butt. Like I have a flat butt, so it doesn't really know what's happening. Like our like my family, like no no butt.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

I don't know if you could consider what I had a butt. There was some sort of shelf thing happening that I didn't even know was happening. There was some hip stuff. I mean, it wasn't great. It was not a design.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

So I've been doing a lot of squats trying to get a butt.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

I am. I am doing a lot of working out every single day. I'm working out with my kettlebell, I'm doing all of this thing. But um, a friend of mine said I was getting Ozempic butt. And um, I don't really know what that means. I just happy you can't stick, you know, a cup of coffee on it and let it sit there.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

No, well, that was never gonna be my butt unless you I had surgery. I would not think that.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

I'm not saying a shelf butt in a good way. I mean, this was not like a Kardashian thing, but I went to a wedding back in September and I looked at the picture and I'm like, what the hell is happening? I I was horrified. Horrified. Like, this is like I'm I mean, I cried. I mean, and this is so embarrassing to feel like I'm so vain. It's just at that point I had already lost like 20 pounds and I was like, I feel good. I've gone down a dress size, and I'm like, I feel like I look bigger than what I've been remembered. So to see this and being like, oh gosh, I see progress, and the fact that um my 13-year-old was so encouraging and just so and I told Elaine, I'm like, I bought you an outfit, but I kept it for myself. I'm sure she's like, Mom, I'm so proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

Oh, well, I'm glad she wasn't upset that you were sharing. No, no, no. But my my daughter, Isabel, she she's in college and she is significantly I mean, both of our girls are smaller than I am. Yeah, but she goes in and steals my sweaters.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

Yeah, mine do too.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

I'm like, why? Because of course the oversized, I'm like, thanks. Oversized on you, fits great on me, makes me feel good about myself. Because that for me, I'm I'm frustrated because I'm not losing pounds, I'm losing inches, and I know it's it's you're gonna muscle.

SPEAKER_03 8:15

I'm like, no, I know. I I don't tell me that listen, and this I'm not really meaning to brag. I think I'm just in such an awe because I've done this weight loss journey so many times, or I've attempted, and finding something that is helping my body work the way it's supposed to, yeah, I'm responding so well. I'm not just doing medicine, like I'm working out daily. I've really worked. I'm like I'm putting it in.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Eating really well, yes. Um you have changed your lifestyle. It's not just for me, it's like it's just not its shot.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Yeah, it's I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 8:47

And that's for me too. Like everything like working out, eating, and I know eventually it will come off, but for the past two months to be the same way, like to plateau. I hate the plateau.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

And I've and I've done that in every other time. And it's frustrating to keep going when you plateau. Yeah. So anyway, uh now we've we've happied and crappied a little bit, but uh wait, w that's not your official crappy. Like, no, my official mine.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

I I know. Well, because you talked about weight loss, and so of course I gotta jump in. But my my crappy is we I put up my finally, I put up my Christmas tree. You should be happy. I thank you. And we have two trees because we have a tree that has all of our ornaments on it that we have to hide or keep up because the dog will eat the ornaments.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Well, Darby is known for eating anything she can get.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Anything she can her boss. Well, and most recently a pot of chili. Oh, oh I I know, rough. Uh it was a rough couple days. Rough. Um, so I still like to have a Christmas tree in our window that I can see in our living room that I just want to look at. Yeah. And so I'm like, I'm going to buy a Christmas tree that is already de it looks like it's decorated. It looks like it has snow on it. And I bought the tree. I so we saw this tree. It was on sale, like half off. It was very tall, like a nine foot, which is perfect for us. Amazing. And then I realized why it was half off because the snow is glitter. Our whole house has glitter everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 10:13

You have a glitter bomb tree.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

I have a glitter bomb tree. And now if you come into my house and you leave my house, people are gonna wonder, what were you at? Were you at a strip club? Because there's luckily like my dog is full of glitter, I'm full of glitter, there is glitter everywhere, so maybe don't come to my house because your spouse might be wondering or your friends, where where would have you been because you are full of glitter?

SPEAKER_03 10:35

Well, you did need some extra work.

SPEAKER_00 10:40

I have no comment on that. I'm teething. But yes, I who would have thought that fake snow is actually glitter. Like it I should have I should have been smart about it and realized that, but man, I I did not.

SPEAKER_03 10:52

I even when you see it, you don't think it's going to be like surely it's a applied in a way that it isn't going to be everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

The glitter. The glitter comes off. Oh. So Doug is very happy with me as he goes to school.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

I love that. With glitter all over his manly Doug with his glitter. Probably got glitter beard. He's festive.

SPEAKER_00 11:16

And he is very festive. He is very festive. So today we are talking cults. No, I'm just kidding. No, we're actually because uh we talked about it a little bit, and I've had lots of questions of people about your upbringing because you were raised for a very long time in Utah.

SPEAKER_03 11:37

Okay, so this is gonna be the Utah episode.

SPEAKER_00 11:40

This is the Utah episode. I think. Because I'm also curious because where you've you moved around, right? In your in your child for um because how many times how many different places did you live?

SPEAKER_03 11:50

So my dad worked for the airlines and I was born in northern Ohio, which is not um we live, you know, just south of Ohio now and Cincinnati area now.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

However, um so I was But Northern Ohio is not south southern it's not, it's different, it's different.

SPEAKER_03 12:04

Okay, great. But not like not like Utah different. No. So I moved to Utah when I was 10. Okay. Um my dad got transferred there. We lived just south of Salt Lake City. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

And how long were you there?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

I was there for seven years.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

So for a while.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

But that was ten to seventeen.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

But so in formative years.

SPEAKER_03 12:21

So very formative years.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

And then after that you came back to the city.

SPEAKER_03 12:24

I moved to Cincinnati when I was seventeen.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

So you lived in three different places for in your child growing up. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 12:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

So northern Ohio to Utah. Utah to southern Ohio to City.

SPEAKER_03 12:36

But when people ask me like where did I grow up, my mind says I grew up in Utah. Because that's where the majority of my memories are. That's where Of course, because as you're you're And not that I don't have have a lot of Ohio memories, but the majority of my Ohio memories are ones visiting back with family during even during those times. So yes, I have memories of all this stuff, but like, you know, your your whole like impressionable years. Impressionable years, like all of this stuff, like where my brain is really like Because I always wondered, because you your family is a very strong Christian family.

SPEAKER_00 13:08

Yeah. It has a very strong Christian faith. And when you said when you talked in the episode about growing up in Utah, I went right to like, oh, so you were Mormon? But you were Mormon. So now I under now it makes sense to me how you were a Christian family living in because you started off in Ohio.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

Yes. Which and I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

So I this is I Casey has been gathering her questions for I have been confirmed for I mean I have lot lots of lots of questions of of of because one, is it is it really like in my mind, Utah is full of Mormons.

SPEAKER_03 13:48

Okay, is it is that so before we get into the questions, let me just preface this. Okay, great. Okay. Um I have so many friends that are part of the Latter-day Saint faith, which is what you called. Oh, thank you. Um thank you for questions. I don't think that I don't they're not offended by Mormons um by you or by being being called that. Um and I would say that I have never met a Mormon who doesn't consider themselves to be a part of the Christian faith. Yes. Um there are definite theological differences. Okay. And if you ever want to and and I if you ever want to sit down and have a conversation with me one-on-one, I would be h if you're if you are a Mormon and you want to say, like, I don't understand how we think you think we're, you know, we differ, um, or you're curious, I'm 100% always willing to have a one-on-one conversation about it. And I mean, honestly, like, it's my favorite thing to do is to go back and forth about religion. I mean, I I love it. Uh-huh. That being said, it would not be fair for me to say the differences in our faith on a one-way street where on a podcast where you just listen and you can't talk back to me. Because I believe it's a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Oh, I'd love it.

SPEAKER_03 14:58

And not, um, I just don't want you to hear, you know, my thoughts on different religions. That's that's not the purpose of this podcast. However, so I'm just want to say like nothing that I'm saying that I will be saying or am saying or anything of that nature is a reflection of how I feel about the people.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

Because you have deep faith, amazing. Yes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 15:18

So when we talk about some of these stories, I mean, they are my experiences, they may not be everybody's experiences, and I was like, also let you know, these all happened in the nineties.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

Well, nineties when what when we talked about this before, like nineties meaning you were Christian nineties. That was 100%.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

So when you Christian music. So when you hear when so when I say these things, it all happened in the nineties. Um, I the church, the uh and you the Mormon church, the Latter-day Saint church, has changed their viewpoint on several things since the nineties. Okay. Um, so I'm telling you my perspective of what I grew up with, what I was around, what it was like to live in a place where ninety percent of the people were Mormon, and I was not.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

And I think that's my biggest question is was there a culture shock for you when you moved from northern Ohio to Utah?

SPEAKER_03 16:08

Yeah. So my dad set us down and he said, We are I'm getting transferred, this is where we're going. And we were a family who went to church every single week. Um, I would say that our family was, you know, our uh our extended family, everybody was religious. Um most of my my dad's family came from a Lutheran faith, my mom's family came from a Catholic faith. So this is my really my only and I probably did like the VBS circuit, even on top of that, as we all did in those eight those days. Um so I really only knew that that lifestyle, that background, that kind of version of religion. So moving to Utah, my dad's like, I just need to let you know there's something called Mormons, and um, you know, this is kind of what it's like. And so at this point, like what you need to know about my dad is he is a huge nerd when it comes to religion. And I mean that in the nicest way possible. I mean, he is a researcher, he is a reader, he is um not that I don't remember him being that way when we lived in Ohio, but I was little, I wasn't taking the same things in the same way. So when we moved to Utah, um he deeply was trying to understand things of of what that religion was like.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

He went down a rabbit hole of of researching the Latter-day Saints and so there was books all over my house of like we had the Book of Mormon out.

SPEAKER_03 17:33

He was constantly comparing to things in the Bible, he was looking at other resources, he was really looking at I think that's I don't know if that's where he developed like his love of like apologetics.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Um, but that's kind of where I started getting so I'm 10 watching my dad research all these things, and I remember not knowing exactly um how that was going to work, but I remember a teacher. So let me just tell you like like when I'm 10, like my first interaction with how I understand that I'm we're Dorothy, we're not in Kansas anymore. Yes. Um, I was in fifth grade, okay, and we went to public school. We had always gone to public school. Um it is a year-round system because the amount of children in Utah is astronomical. Really? Oh. So one of the tenets of the Mormon faith is to reproduce as often as the Lord would allow you.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:29

Um so they the average number of children for families there is much higher than what you encounter here.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Okay. Well, I mean, I feel Catholics are also were very known for the for the rhythm method of lots of lots of children.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Yes. But this wasn't I I would say that they weren't rhythm, they were actively trying to reproduce as often as possible. This wasn't failed rhythm method. It was we will take as many as uh the Lord will allow. Okay. Um there is something that they call it their eternal families that they are trying to re-like the more that they have creates a a larger eternal family. Okay. Like I said, I don't want to get too deep, but there's also they also believe there's three levels of heaven. Um so very different than kind of what you and I are aware of. And you're looking at me like I have no, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

I I know. Well, and we're not I know we're not taking deep dive into that. Okay, so backing up. But call me if you want to talk about it. I'd love to. This is gonna be a sidebar conversation that we're gonna have.

SPEAKER_03 19:28

So, okay, so so those things are happening. Great. So it's year-round school because these schools cannot possibly have the sheer amount of children. So kids track out every few. So you go to school for two months and then you have a month off. You go to school for or two to three months and then you have a month off. What? So who's the lucky people who get summer off? Everybody got a portion of summer off. Like our summers were like six weeks. But like my track, I was on B track if I remember correctly, and our track was that we had um pretty much all of December, all of March, and we had all July off.

SPEAKER_00 20:02

So was when you say like was the whole family, the one fan your whole family was on the same track.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Like children weren't got it. So the way that that worked is that we didn't necessarily have classrooms that were always ours because you another class would track in when one tracked out. So it was really much very open concept schools. So um they just had pretty much had dividers, and so sometimes they would like large teach and they would just move the dividers and we would all be together. And so I want to say there's maybe uh a hundred or so kids in this open classroom that I have. Okay. Thirty of them maybe like in my particular, you know, core group, but you know, sometimes we did like it's not really an assembly, but we were all together. And the teacher says, Okay, I want everybody to stand up.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

And they said, So this is your first day, your first first year.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

This is my first year. Well okay pretty early on. Okay. Pretty early on. I mean, not since it's not first day, but early on. And so everybody stands up. She goes, Okay, if you identify as LDS, I want you to sit down. Okay? Everybody sits, with the exception of three people. Out of a hundred? Out of a hundred. Now, this is not like an exact number, but what I'm telling you is around this, okay? So three are still standing. She goes, Okay, if you are Catholic, please sit down. And the two others sit down. Oh no. And so me, brand new to this school, brand new to Utah, I have no friends, I know no one. Yes. I'm looking around, they're like, and what are you? Oh. What'd you say? I'm Christian. So at this point, I was like, Lutheran? What'd you say? I said, I'm a Christian. And in my head, I am a C I am a C H R I am a C H R I S D I Okay. So that's all that's in my head. Uh huh. And they're like, and she goes, Well, yes, well, so are we. Oh. And so in my head, I'm like, Well, I'm a Lutheran, you know, so 'cause it's that's at that point, that's the denomination that I was a part of. And And she's like, oh, okay. And then we go about into something else. And I'm like, okay, that was so weird. And I'm in a couple of things. Oh, 100%. I was singled out. So then the teacher comes up to me later on that day and she pulls me aside, and there's like this kind of like row of like metal shelving, like uh cabinets. Okay. And she opens up the cabinet, she goes, Stephanie, come here. And so I come over and I'm like, and she goes, Do you see that all the kids in your grade have these rings? And she shows me a these uh a ring on her hand and she sho shows me, you know, I'm looking at a stack of Book of Mormons in the public school. Uh-uh. Okay. Uh-huh. And she goes, Did you see everybody has these rings? And I said, I did notice everybody had the rings, but in my mind, like it was just a popular thing, you know, like this is just trending, and I'm new here and I don't know what's happening. And she goes, Well, all of our rings say CTR. And I was like, I don't know what that means. CTR. CTR. Okay. Which stood for choose the right. And it looks a little bit like a shield.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Um, and they're not like all identical, but the shields are identical, but some are silver, some are gold, some were, you know, like had, you know, colors, you know, like but they all had they were all wearing these. And I thought, I also want to choose the right. Because she's like, Do you want to have a ring like this? And I was like, Yes, yes, I do. Of course you do. And I want to be like everybody else. Uh-huh. I'm a good kid. I want to choose the right. It's just like shield. And I'm thinking this is like what does it even mean, choose the right? Well, in my mind, you know, I'm seeing the shield, and I'm thinking back to the Bible stories that I know. And I'm thinking, you know, like the belt of truth, you know. Okay. You know, like I'm thinking like the armor of God. Okay. Oh. Okay. So that's where my brain is, and I'm like, why wouldn't I want this? I'm like, this is great. Yeah. And I don't, like I said, I I know there's something called Mormons. Now she has told me that I am the sane. I am the same.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

We're both Christians. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

So she hands me a book of Mormon and she invites me to go to um the ward. Now, I should say, when I say ward, that's what they call them there. Um, you go to not the church of your choosing, you go to the church that is in location to where you live. Oh, okay. So anybody who's going to that school would be going to the same ward. Which is a church. Which is sh this is a church. Now they don't have pastors, they would have bishops and elders, and they have more of a testimony-based um thing, and it goes on for much longer than what our normal services are. So now I'm like, I just need to read the Book of Mormon, commit to going to this place. So I go home and tell my dad I want to become a Mormon. Wait, what did your dad say? And I know he's studying these things, but I'm like, she says she's a Christian. I say I'm a Christian.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I'm in.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Give me this ring, Daddy. Like, I'm like, I I want in. And he sits me down and telling me things way above my pay grade, um, way beyond what I can understand. He's a fifth grader. As a fifth grader, and he's kind of laying this out, and I mean, it's like, in this, and this, and this, in the book of this, and he's going, you know, back and forth, and I'm like, what I'm hearing is you don't want me to have a ring.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

What you're saying is no.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

So and my dad was so uh smart because I will remember him saying this to me always. He said, What you choose to believe and who you choose to be are always going to be your own decision.

SPEAKER_01 25:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

And uh it's my job to teach you what I know and how I have chosen to raise you and what I believe to be true. But I want you to believe what you believe, not because I believe it, but because you believe it. So if you want to learn about this, I will let you. You can explore this. Um but I would hope that you would come back to the truth that uh of of Jesus and you know what we believe to be, you know, the accuracy of the Bible and the Bible alone. And I am looking at him and I'm looking like, I'm not gonna get my ring.

SPEAKER_00 26:15

Well, you know, I'm 10. Of course it's all you care about is a ring. So And you don't want to be the odd man out if everybody's however my dad won up then.

SPEAKER_03 26:23

He took me to the store and he bought me a fancy cross. Oh, did he? I did get a cross necklace. Um, and so I'm proudly wearing my cross. I go back to school, and then some people came and approached me the next week, and they came to invite me up to the young women's, which is their young women's was all the things. Yeah. You know, of that's that's so they invite me to come up and play volleyball, and I said, Dad, can I play volleyball? And, you know, my dad takes his cross out of his shirt so you can see it, and I kind of mimic him, and I take the kind of cross kind of like off of my collar, and I'm I'm like, you know, look at look at my pretty thing. And um they said, Oh, okay, you've made a different choice. Uh and I was no longer invited to be part of volleyball or any of these things.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

So you did not play sports or anything growing up.

SPEAKER_03 27:07

Well, I mean, they should try and put me in other things. I'm that and then I can't blame Mormons for being terrible at sports. Uh actually, that's the reason I didn't play sports.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

I mean, BYU is is doing pretty NIL money. And and they're doing they're very generous. Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Uh I I mean as far as charities and helping out communities, my gosh.

SPEAKER_03 27:29

I can go on and on and on and tell you the wonderful things that I've seen this church do for people. Yes. Um, one so when I say like there was not a large network of people who were like me, um, after my dad had heard these stories, they ended up enrolling me in a Lutheran school. Oh really? Because a K through eight school, and so I finished out my fifth grade year, and then I went from sixth through I'm sorry, uh 11th grade. Oh, okay. In a in private schools. So a K through eight school, and then I went to a private uh Lutheran high school. Okay. Um not to say there weren't still Mormons at those schools too. Of course not, but um, but yeah, it was just it was it was very different. Um my dad did a really good job throughout, not just at that point, of he saw that I was taking an interest in religions. Um so when I have touched on the fact that I'm a nerd and I like commentary and I do all things. I'm very much wired like my dad. Um in fact, there's nothing more than I like of bantering back and forth with my dad of the things we agree with and and uh especially things we disagree with. Um so we like to go back and forth, and I and he can get irritated with me sometimes. I'm like, iron sharpens iron, dad, you know, just like you taught me. Like being a part of that made me have to defend what I believed more. Oh, of course. So at a young age. At a very young age. So that so that was just kind of one of the very first things that shaped kind of like, oh, this is different. Especially like culturally, like we are totally different, like culturally, what and and Yeah, so if the basis of the religion is do what do I need to go to heaven, what do I need to have a relationship with?

SPEAKER_01 29:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:15

Um, I was watching w uh uh uh kids be raised really similar to me in the really conservative way that I was being raised, but we were raised differently because the grace quotient was different.

SPEAKER_01 29:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

And I think I maybe have touched on that um in in the maybe in the very beginning, where I I I was s surrounded by people who were saying, like, God will forgive you, you know, we'll do all these things, but I didn't feel forgiveness around with my peers. I didn't feel I didn't feel these things because there was such a high expectation for perfection in that area. Um even like my kids will refer to Utah moms because they see these things on TikTok and all these things. And I was like, What do you even know what a Utah mom is? I I have no idea what a Utah mom is. You know, but it is a it's a really curated from their perspective, it's a very curated um things need to look perfect, things need to be perfect, you need to have all, you know, all of your ducks in a row, and that's very much how I felt growing up. It was the standard of perfection that even though my parents weren't doing that, like that's just culturally like you just didn't fall out of line.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah. But I I mean, I I grew up with a mom who wanted everything to look perfect, but on the inside, everything was falling apart. But on the outside, it looked like we were a everything was put together.

SPEAKER_03 30:44

Yes. So very much the perception thing was very much the same there too. But I mean, like, I remember when we moved, so when we first moved to Utah. And and no fault to my mom, like she she was raising all of us on her own, and she just, you know, when and I would say culturally the nineties were a very different time, you know, the same way, the 80s, the 70s, whatever time you grew up in. Um, but like my teenage years all took place in, you know, the nineties. Yeah, same thing. And in Utah. So it was just a different, it was a different time. So um culturally, that's kind of what we were looking at. Um so it was just it was it was very different. And so there's like the standard of perfection that I felt was unattainable, but I desperately wanted to be a part of it. Um so there was just kind of things like that that were like, oh, okay, this is this is different. And then I would go back and I would visit my family out in Ohio, and I'm like, they were not being raised in that that standard. Yeah. It felt very, very different. Um and I just found myself like okay, you gotta be perfect. And I always had so anytime I did something imperfect, or you know, and of course I did, still do. Every day. But I that I the shame stuff, you know, the purity culture and that kind of stuff, like that really l aligned right away.

SPEAKER_00 32:04

I would have been in hell already. In sixth grade and they wouldn't have shot me right to hell.

SPEAKER_03 32:12

Uh well, you know, it's one of those things that you just, you know, that that's just kind of how things were. It's not to say that things people didn't fall out of in line that way. Yeah. But my gosh, I mean, that means like the purity thing with in Utah was uh I mean, if you felt it at a five or a six here in a conservative place, it was dialed up to a nine to a ten beyond there. Um it just was like the purity and perfection were just that was that was the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

So meanwhile, you're striving for perfection.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Oh yeah. And so when we first moved there, we lived in a rental house the first year. We really weren't sure where we were gonna land. Um in fact, we were driving around and our car broke down in a Lutheran parking lot. I kid you not, a church parking lot, and there's not that many.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

I I I would not think so, but uh what are the odds?

SPEAKER_03 33:03

What are the odds? That ends up being the school that we go to, the church that we attend. Like, and we ended up purchasing a home that was with a mile of there, so we you know end up walking, riding our bikes to school there. And um, so you know, that we do that, but when we're we're looking for homes, we have a realtor and they are there's like apartment, like what they call what did they call it? No, not apartment, appliance garages was they said. And I'm like, What's an appliance garage? I'm like, this doesn't make any sense when you're going around, you know, like okay, this is what da da da. Um so they're like, This is where the appliance garage is, and we're like, What's in the appliance garage? And my mom, who was like, I hate having things on my counters. This is great, I can hide all the things. And so every time you open these things, it's all like they're coffee pots. Because Mormons are not allowed to have hot versions of caffeine. Yes. Yeah, I I heard that. So no coffee, no tea. Um but they but cold, fine. Yeah, probably where my love of Diet Coke uh really flourished there.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

I could not survive without coffee. Well, I mean we didn't we had to be caffeine free, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 34:11

Uh they I mean, yes, I still drank coffee there. I mean, obviously that I never became a Mormon, but that but I had many friends who that wasn't that I mean, so like when you see um I'm gonna admit to something now.

SPEAKER_00 34:24

Oh, oh, yes, please admit to something.

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I have watched the Secret Lives of Mormon Wives.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

Oh I have not seen that.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

It's really trashy. Um not really a very good reflection, I think, of anybody that I ever met. Oh um, but like they are very into their what they call their dirty sodas. I I we there is a uh famous soda.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Swig, yes. Yes, we oh my gosh, we were talking about that yesterday. Someone, my friend and I were talking about this where she brought it up and she's like, Oh, you have to ask about swig. Yeah. I go, what what is Swig?

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Okay, so now I will say the dirty soda thing did not happen when I was, but the soda consumption was off the chain always. Now, whoever decided to start Swig, I mean, in Utah especially, I mean, Chef's Kiss to them. What what a power.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

What is what is is it so it's not just like Coke. It's like I Diet Coke.

SPEAKER_03 35:16

They generally have all of it. They have um because like all of the the different beverages, uh Dr. Pepper Diet Coke, obviously being the most popular. Of course. Um, and to make it dirty, you add syrups and um half and half or creamer.

SPEAKER_00 35:32

Okay, so it this must be popular now. So did it start it? Yeah, it started because Isabel, when she came home from college, she had a cherry coke and put my s sweet creamer in it. I thought, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_03 35:48

Which sounds disgusting. And I don't think you're just gonna see it. Sometimes it it it makes a little like a curdly look of a thing, but yes, it's a thing.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

She's like, Mom, it is so good you should try it. I'm like, absolutely absolutely not.

SPEAKER_03 35:58

I will tell you if you've never had it.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

You're ruining my sweet creamer.

SPEAKER_03 36:02

So the first dirty, the first dirty soda I had.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

And a cot, why dirty soda? I mean, that's such a horrible name.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Horrible name for it.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

That's what they call it. The first time I had had it, it was an ear. So this is way actually, so I had discovered it from a Mormon friend um before I'd ever heard of swig. So I don't know like if that had not come about yet, but it was Diet Coke, um, coconut creamer, and a squeeze of lime.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

That's disgusting.

SPEAKER_03 36:33

I have to tell you, it's it I loved it. No. I loved it. No. I know. It was kind of like a It sounds like it almost made it like a little pina colada-ish. It tastes I don't know. I'm telling you, I think coconut's good. So I love coconut, so it's fine.

SPEAKER_00 36:51

You're you're drinking Suntan oil. Because I am that that smell is coming from the 80s 30. That smell is so significant with the with the bot with the baby oil in the I know. It smells like coconut, so I cannot smell it.

SPEAKER_03 37:06

So but that all became very popular because there was a decree that they were not to ingest hot caffeine.

unknown 37:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:13

That's a totally interesting. I think all of that. But it is but it is one of the rules. Yes. Um, so yeah, so that's yeah, that would be one of the uh yeah, that's the swig story. That's how that works out. Um but other things that like I had never encountered there is like one of the things that pre people bring you. It's called funeral potatoes.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

I've heard of funeral potatoes. That's that's and that's a real that's a and I hear the delicious.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Yeah, they're great.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

So apparently what I'm covering to say is our next podcast, we need to have funeral potatoes and dirty Dirty sodas.

SPEAKER_03 37:46

I will make you a dirty soda. I will make d you know, but you know, I I won't I won't do coconut.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

No coconut. I won't do coconut. Um don't let me see what it looks like because if it looks like it's curbed.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

I know. You don't you don't want to see it. You don't want to see it. Um think I mean, think of like almost like um like if you're gonna have a root beer float, like that kind of a taste. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Well I like that.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

So okay, so you can kind of go in that direction.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

So But now that it makes sense that you say it, because I'm like, what's the difference between ice cream and cream? I mean it's a really just frozen.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

But I will not make you eat this because I can't tell you how many times I showed up to places and they sh the green jello.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

Specifically green jello with shredded carrots. Ew. I know, it's disgusting. Now I grew up with like the like the fruit cocktail and jello.

SPEAKER_00 38:30

Yes, my my aunt every Chris every Thanksgiving brings a jello mold with fruit in it.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

The jello mold with and it was lime jello with shredded carrots was like the thing. And it was at every function always.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So there was one person who was always in charge of bringing the jello with the shredded carrots.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

So now like my family will still like they'll make they're like, we made jello, we put fruit cake. I'm like, I want nothing in my jello. Like that is disgusting to me. That is like I draw the line there. I no even though I grew up having that, the carrots and jello, not a great combo, but that was like that was at every function.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I I mean so when when growing up and you are so uh different from from most from most people, what would you say that is um is there anything that you like took away from like coming back here, like hey, like I don't what am I trying to say?

SPEAKER_03 39:33

Yeah, I so I it was clear that I was the outsider in there.

SPEAKER_00 39:38

And so when I came here, I I was gonna say, like, is there something that you were like, hey, I like I actually it maybe not agreed like culturally, like I kind of like want to bring this into my family.

SPEAKER_03 39:50

I came when I moved to Utah, I had a much higher spiritual confidence than my peers because I had been defending my faith for the last seven years. Yeah. Um So when you came back to to the to And I will say when I say defending of my faith, um the same way that you know, like m I I I said I bantered with my dad, I bantered with my Mormon friends. Um, and I always took it as the same thing I said to you earlier about my dad that iron sharpens iron iron sharpens iron. Like if I can't div I can't have my faith because my dad gave it to me. I can't have my faith because they chose to baptize me as an infant. I can't have my faith because I accepted Jesus when I was young and I never opened anything again. To have to have the faith that I had then and I have now has been a continuation of building up of why do I believe this? And the only reason I knew why I believed was because I knew what I didn't believe.

SPEAKER_01 40:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:47

So when I moved here at 17, um we moved into a place that um I was trying to just find anybody my age. Yeah. Because I was 17, I moved here, I had left all my friends, and it was like, oh, it was a moving here was culture shock again.

SPEAKER_00 41:04

Because I know like well, even from I think northern Ohio to the Cincinnati area is completely different.

SPEAKER_03 41:12

Yeah. Um so where we lived, we had moved into a brand new neighborhood, and there was just there's there was maybe a few little kids, but there was nobody our age.

SPEAKER_00 41:19

You were you were on the Kentucky side of the Ohio River. Yeah. So you went, you were in Kentucky. You were Kentucky.

SPEAKER_03 41:23

So we were in Kentucky. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

And um So Ohio, Utah, Kentucky. Yes. What a combo. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

What a combo.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

So I remember my most people don't know that the airport, the Cincinnati airport, is actually not in Cincinnati.

SPEAKER_03 41:37

Yeah, it's in Kentucky. And so my dad worked at the airport. So that's, you know, so we were in Kentucky. Um, but I remember like driving around and, you know, with my mom, and we saw like a youth group doing some sort of fundraiser. I'm like, take me, take me right now, drop me off. I just needed to to meet other people. And religion was a part of everything there. Religion was a part of absolutely everything in Utah. It wasn't like something you just visited on Sundays or Wednesday nights. Like it was part of everything. Okay. Which is very different than here. So when I say religion was a part of my life, I mean it was every part of my life.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

I went to a Christian school, like any extracurriculars, like, you know, that there like the public affirmation of faith there is is just not like what you experience here. Yes, where it's like Sunday only. Yeah, yeah. It just was very different. So when I moved here, I'm like, oh, just find me, find me kids.

SPEAKER_01 42:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:28

And so finding out, so when I came here and I ended up joining a church that was different than the one that my parents went to, which was kind of a weird move. But like I told you, I was a weird kid at this point. Like I like, so I went to church with my mom and dad, and then I started going to this other church where I mean, fun story, maybe some other day I'll tell. That's where I met my husband when we were 17.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

They invited me on a So this is non-denominational. This is a Lutheran. This is still Lutheran. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:52

Still Lutheran. Okay, I didn't know when you made the switch to non-denomination. To be fair, I mean, I just saw kids outside. That's how we ended up there. Okay. This was a I like I saw someone my age, and this is the first person I'd seen in my age in weeks.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

Hilarious said it was still Lutheran.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

It still was Lutheran. Yeah. A car broke down in a Lutheran church. I just it's just the first somebody I saw my age, and I made my mom.

SPEAKER_00 43:12

Well, now I'm wondering why you're not Lutheran. Why even stay with the Lutheran church? They're probably wondering that too, right now. I'm just saying. I don't think they are. Oh, okay, just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 43:23

Actually, you know, you know, like I said, I'm always open to having, you know, where I believe in all these things, and um my family still many most um my my parents still attend a Lutheran church. I was married in the Lutheran Church. Um I worked in the Lutheran church. Um I did find that I was having some that particular denomination was going in ways that I'm like, I don't know if I have the same I'm in a hundred percent agreement with all of these things. Uh not that you'll ever 100% agree with the church. No, no, because the church is so um, yeah, um that's we and we ended up kind of you know going more in the non Denom route at that point. But um yeah, so I I show up at this youth thing. They end up inviting me on a trip literally the day that I meet these people. No. Yeah. They said, um I feel like you're just going from one cult to another cult. No, not of a butt cult. No, no, no, no. But I would say, you know, some, you know, you know, some church things, some youth group things can feel that way to, you know, other people. Um for me, it was like, oh my gosh, they were getting ready to, they were raising money. They were selling mulch. Oh yeah. That's a big thing around here. Around here, which that was not a thing in Utah because you couldn't grow grass through.

SPEAKER_00 44:35

Mulch mattresses, yeah, you name it.

SPEAKER_03 44:37

Yeah. I mean, you it was Utah was sand, like you had to bring sod in, you know, to like have grass there. Like you you couldn't, yeah. Anyway, so they were doing a mulch sale, and I I was just like, I see teenagers, and so they say, Hey, we're raising money to go to New Orleans. And I was like, Cool. And they're like, We have a paid-for-girl spot and they ran out. Do you want to go to New Orleans in two weeks? I had never met these people in my life. And I look at my mom and like, you just moved me 2,000 miles away. I'm going to New Orleans.

SPEAKER_00 45:07

I mean, I would too, but I think you and I going to New Orleans were for very different, for very different reasons at that time. Very different reasons. However, we probably saw very similar things. Uh well, yeah, we saw similar things 100%. So But I was the one drinking on Bourbon Street, and you were praying for me on Bourbon Street. Were you were you the ones with the cross praying for people? No, no, no, we weren't.

SPEAKER_03 45:30

We I mean we went for like a gathering sort of a situation. I'm not quite sure whether they gathered us in New Orleans. That seems like an odd spot. Um all that being said, um I came into that church and within a month of attending this church, I was looking at their youth group. I'm like, we could do better.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

No.

SPEAKER_03 45:51

Um they were voting like it was things that were official, and then I'm then I'm like, like, who wants to be president? I'm like, me, please. Um I be.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

Here comes the new girl who's just going to bulldoze her way into leadership.

SPEAKER_03 46:04

I did. I ended up working at that church later on. Yeah, I graduated college and ended up going back and working there. Um so I little did they know that kids outside changed. My time in Utah gave me a boldness that I could not have ever anticipated. I felt a calling to work in the church, yeah, evangelize, shepherd, all of these things from when I was 12. So when I first started learning about things at 10, from 10 to 12, I was really just absorbing things. My dad was taking me places, and I was just his little buddy, you know, like he liked any speakers. I mean, this is like back in the days that like you'd listen to like seminars on tape, you know, like um I was just absorbing everything. And he was learning it wasn't just about the Mormon religion, it was like all religions. Yeah. If there was a book on cults, and I'm like, I want to read everything. I mean now I'm a documentary freak. I listen to podcasts, I watch every documentary. Yeah, so I'm I'm locked in. I yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

And so every time I see something of that nature, it makes me think Which is why I always think like once I hear like a group of people and they're doing some some weird stuff, I'm like, oh, you're 100% in a cult. But then again, people would look at me and be like, Well, you weren't you in your own little cult? Don't you believe that Jesus came down and got a virgin pregnant and then what? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Well then not Jesus, God came down and yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

Well to me, people I think people are pretty clear where we stand on on what we believe. But yeah, 100%. I have uh but every time I learned something about how somebody else believed from a very young age, it made me want to be like, well, why don't I believe that? Why do I believe what I believe and why don't I believe what they say? Yeah. So I became kind of a hyper nerd of trying to figure these things out. Like for fun. This is this is crazy. So one of the weird things about Utah that like you wouldn't understand unless you live there. And for someone who's directionally challenged, actually was a huge plus for me. Yeah. All of the streets are in relationship to the temple. Oh. So all the streets are coordinates. Oh. So I lived should I tell you my exact add- I won't tell you my exact address, but close to it, okay? Okay. So I lived on the 16 to the 100th east block and 1300 south. So I could look at a map and go take those intersections and know exactly where I was, and that's exactly how far away I was from the Salt Lake City temple. Really? So every address in Utah is in coordination to their local temple. At ours specifically, I lived in Sandy, which our local temple was the Salt Lake City, which is one the largest I would I'm gonna say original. I don't know if that's to be 100% true, but like when you see pictures of, you know, like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir and that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 48:54

I mean and my upbringing are so different. I know, I know so different.

SPEAKER_03 48:59

So for funsies, uh I used to visit the temple as a like a teenager, a young kid, and I would just I would go toe to toe with missionaries.

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Were you allowed to go to the temple?

SPEAKER_03 49:12

You could there's like the outside versions of the temple that visitors are allowed to uh go and the missionaries are out and they're talking to you, and so I would I would talk to missionaries, like just for fun. And not because I was looking to like tear them down. I honestly was just I felt that was my way of sharpening my faith in where I lived. And so So as a young teenager, you would go toe to toe. Start debating. Oh my gosh. It wasn't debating, it was conversational because I was so curious. And you have to remember, I'm not allowed in the inner sanctions of the temple. The people that I knew who got married in the Mormon faith, I was never allowed to go to their weddings because obviously I was not sealed in the temple. I didn't have a temple recommend. I was not Mormon. And I'm saying all these words in your eyes are I have no idea what you're saying. I mean, I understand the words, but I understand the context of the word seems so to be able to be a part of temple things, you have to have a temple recommend, um, which generally you wouldn't get um as a child, anyways. Um there's m most of my friends at that age had already been baptized. They get baptized at age eight there. Okay. Um, and then several late several years after that, you may be invited to do baptisms for the dead, which you could I Casey's face is like, I what I'm telling you, this stuff was not weird there. Like this is stuff that was happening. I mean, it's certainly nor yes. I mean I can't say I always thought it was normal, but I knew it was happening.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Like I was Which makes me think, okay, what in this area is like someone from would come into Kentucky.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

So one of my friends wa who was, you know, a devout Mormon, she ended up going to school with me into the Lutheran school system, but she just in her family preferred a private school. Um, she was telling me that she was, you know, the first time I understood this, she was telling me she was g she was baptizing for the dead. And their idea is if you think kind of like a and this I'm not saying this to be 100% true because obviously I'm we're not going through all the facts, but think of like how Catholics think uh have a uh a belief in purgatory. Oh okay that there's there's an opportunity for you know in the afterlife to make a different decision.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:26

Um that she was baptized in the name of people who maybe didn't have a church record on file and hopes that their soul could be accept that in that in that.

unknown 51:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 51:36

I know you're looking at me like this is crazy. But I'm telling you, like this was okay, this is stuff like that. I mean, yeah. I know, and I promise I'm not gonna talk about, you know, the one word that I brought up a few weeks ago. Oh yes, because I, you know, I made my mom's friends uncomfortable. I know a lot of people enjoyed the soaking conversation. Soaking, you just said it. I know, I'm not no, no more than that. But what I'm telling you is when I say that there was this striving to for perfection, it was what can we get away with and stay within the rules. So that's why things like that were prevalent and happening and still happening because they desperately did not want to be out of line.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Yeah. Well, still.

SPEAKER_03 52:16

But they still wanted to experience things.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Of like when when we read the Bible and like, you know, God gives us the, you know, Moses the Ten Commandments, and then we as people, you know, go ahead and and add extra a hundred protection over what we're doing.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Where all of a sudden we are looking at the um where, you know, all throughout the Bible we hear, you know, it being referred to as, you know, sin as being sin. Yeah. Sin is sin. But if you ask any Christian, you know, we I guarantee you our reaction to different sins will categorize them and where they where they fall.

SPEAKER_00 52:53

Uh-huh. Um so and how close we can get to the Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:58

So when I tell you that, you know, the whole anything short well, anything short of sin. The the purity and the sexual sin and that kind of stuff. And people, you know, you know, when I talk about, you know, temple recommends and that kind of stuff, you know, I knew people who were wearing their garments. Like the you had to be dressed conservatively or your garments would show. Um, which is what people like Mormons will refer to as their special underwear sometimes. Oh, I've heard about this, yes. So like long johns in my mind. I know that I mean they're really like, you know, like a boxer sort of a situation for a man. Think of like a boxer brief, like a linen kind of cottony boxer brief. Um, and women were more of like a tank top and you know, kind of that. So um, and they often had like us now, actually, this just made big news that there's new um garments. Oh. So that women can wear tank tops. Oh. Now, not to say that the many w, you know, not everybody does, not everybody does that thing, you know, of wearing the garments, but that was a thing that they would say that helped them feel closer um and reminded them of the promises that they had made and to themselves, to their partners, to the Lord, you know, those things. It's really, yeah, got it.

SPEAKER_00 54:10

So yeah, but now, yeah. But once you're married, do you still have to wear it?

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

I mean, not like I mean, they still like shower and you know do all you know, they don't wear it constantly, you know. For activities that don't require, they don't wear them. Just imagine a basketball uniform with garments underneath of it. But garments are really more of an adult thing, not for children.

SPEAKER_00 54:35

Okay. Well, I'm thinking of like high schoolers.

SPEAKER_03 54:39

I feel like that most women didn't do that till they came back from their mission. Oh, yes, which is a totally different thing after high school when they graduate, typically they go away for two years. Two years. Two years ago. Yeah. And so I I had many friends I have, you know, like who went on to do missions, um, either internationally or locally or somewhere, you know. I one of my really dear friends, they hosted missionaries in their home. Like they lived in their basement, you know. I'm like, so like I said, like this stuff is just it's so was not weird to me there.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

But yeah, I want to go back to your friend who went to the same who switched schools.

unknown 55:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 55:15

Who went to Lutheran church school with you? Yeah. Who was Mormon. Well, I would did she say anything that like shocked her, like going to from a public school that was geared towards more Mormon and then now going to a private Christian school. Well, I mean, they're all right.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

This is where you have to remember that they did not view what we they were being taught as anything wrong or anything different. They just believe what they ended up teaching uh with their Mormon values is an extension of what, yes, of what shocking because it's shocking, however, if you were to look at it tit for tat of like, you know, of the beliefs were not the same. Yeah. Um, like so if you would go to another word for the ward was the steakhouse. Like we're going to like Texas Roadhouse? Not no, no, no, no. So if you go past a Mormon church, you're going to see a steak. You will not see a cross. Oh, okay. So we have many, you know, not many, but there's a few locally.

SPEAKER_00 56:18

Um there's some delicious steakhouses in this area. I have a gift certificate. I still not used to Jeff Ruby's, but that's but that's what I go to to steak.

SPEAKER_03 56:28

Maybe that's how we should uh celebrate our thousandth listen, so which we just had recently. Oh yes. Um with that kind of steakhouse. But no, this kind of steakhouse I'm talking about as no steak, no delicious steak. Um it's it's in reference to the fact that they don't have crosses. Yes. They don't use crosses. So the way that I have a cross necklace on now that it would not be a way that they would identify themselves. Hence the cool ring that I always wanted.

SPEAKER_00 56:54

Yeah. Fun fact, I dated a Mormon. Did you really? I did. I did. It was very fascinating. He he was not practicing clearly.

SPEAKER_03 57:05

But I'm sure he was raised in a way that it was very much of a culture shock of like, oh, it's still different.

SPEAKER_00 57:10

Yes. And and and I remember because he I I wore a cross because it for me it was just the cool thing to do in high school. I think everyone, you know. Yeah. I think Madonna w used to wear like the like the big Oh yes, yes, yes. So just and I remember I was at their house and his mom was like, We don't we don't wear crosses. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, why? She's like, well, why would we want to celebrate and and what you know, if your son died in a car crash, would you wear a car around your neck? And I'm like, whoa. Ouch.

SPEAKER_03 57:49

I I have to say, okay, so I'm actually so glad that you said that because I was afraid if I told you that, that you'd be like, oh, there's no way that they would say something like that. But I would hear those similar not that exact analogy, but similar ones of you know, like the resurrection was not and the resurrection is the staple of our faith. Yes, absolutely. Of of the Christian faith, of you know, that the resurrection.

SPEAKER_00 58:09

I mean that's the reason why we're here.

SPEAKER_03 58:12

If we didn't if Yeah, without that, that's that's how we were, you know, grafted and adopted into his family. You know, we were you know, that's the bloodshed of Jesus in that is is what covers our sins. So the fact that that wasn't uh something that was celebrated or put on display, you know. So yeah, that's very different.

SPEAKER_00 58:30

So yeah, so that that was my my fun fact was Yeah, okay. All right, so okay, I'm glad that you had like a little I had a little, but we didn't because you know, as we said, our upbringings were completely, completely different. So while you were in looking for your your good Christian kids when you came back to this area, I was, you know, in a in a field drinking beer and smoking cigarettes. I mean, that's just Yeah, not my life, yeah. We just so so different. So when I dated my because I started dating him when I was a senior in high school, he had at that point in time had you know was not practicing.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

I will say my senior year in high school, I you know, I did go to one field party. Oh so if you want to be proud, you know, I did have my one.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

I'm not saying that. I am not promoting underreach 13.

SPEAKER_03 59:22

I did I did go to one and I thought I don't get it. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_00 59:26

Oh but you have to remember this is so different than what I experienced. I know it and for me, and I guess that was such a cult because I grew up in the same town that you know, I grew up I right now I'm in I I live in the house that I grew up in. I've been in this town, my friends are still in this town. So where you moved around, you know, you were in three different air places, I stayed put. Yeah. I mean, I went away to college thinking that I would never come back to my town because you know, I think for some of us that's what we always think we're gonna go away and we're never gonna come back. But man, I for me it was like when I went away, it was appreciation of I live in a small town where you, you know, kids to this day, like my children will still jump well, Faith will still jump on her bike and no, not not in the snow, yeah, but will go, you know, to the local coffee shop or to the swim, you know. So you want that that area back, but you know, one thing that we did as kids is we we drank. Not everybody, not everybody, my kids do not, and I don't know how I how I I they my kids were so good. They they did not maybe Doug and I said too many horror stories because I was so open and honest with what I'm like, don't do this, don't be like me.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

Yeah, so I'm like I just said I I I grew up really differently, but at the same time, conservative Christian values oftentimes like didn't look that different like from the way that the majority of my Mormon friends in the community acted. Like we were all still striving for that perfection. Yeah. Um, so some things just did not feel weird to me. Um, I was my husband said something to me the other day, and I said, Well, if you the way that I was raised, and he was like, You were not raised that way, and I was like, You don't know how I was raised. No. Um, and he was like, No, I know your parents, and like that you were obviously raised, and I always said the culture of Utah is something you cannot explain unless you lived there. Yeah. In that season, in that time, in that, you know, that whole kind of you know, that weird bubble of time. Um and I'm sure it's very different now. I have friends that still live there. I I do know that it is a much more progressive, you know. Um the percentages probably aren't what they were there. Like when they're I I would say it was 90% more men. It probably isn't that now, but it's still more prevalent than it than anything else. And I would say the culture probably is more um inside of all the things than anything you would ever experience here. Yeah. The separation of church and state just isn't a thing there. Like it is. I mean it could legally be there, but it's not there. Or at least in the 90s. Or at least it wasn't there then.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

So and and your biggest takeaway was that it just made made you into this very bold, open.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

I mean, I think that's probably who I was always created to be. Yeah. Um, although I joked last week that I didn't want to be bold, that I wanted to be meek, you know, because some things just didn't pan out the way I thought that they would. Um I've but it definitely led me in places to be bold, to lead people to Christ, to end up working with children and teenagers. And um now, even then, so my calling, the way you and I have said over and over again, um to be there for people. You know, I've always had a if you do like a spiritual gifting kind of, you know, I'm sure you I know you've done them. Oh, lots I've done. Would you like to know my, you know, like all of my mysteries? You know, all of the things, all these personality quizzes and all of these things, you know. My highest uh spiritual gift all has always discernment.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:20

Always. Um that's never changed. Um I also have always scored high in shepherding and evangelism and teaching. So all of these things, I know that that's just who I was created to be. I may have thought that ministry was always going to look like something in a professional capacity.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:38

I always kind of thought it was gonna be back in a church because I as much as I grew up feeling, and that's probably why I've touched on why I never want anyone to feel like they're left out. Oh, of course. I never want someone to feel like they're the outsider or fall through the cracks.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:53

When you're five, you know, when you're in fifth grade and you're standing up by yourself, I would definitely feel like I was being left out of something.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:59

So it was a unique experience to come here and full dive in thinking I'm in a group amongst my peers. Yes. In in churches, I'm in women's groups and all these places, thinking they all want to love Jesus and live for him and evangelize. They want to do all this the same way that I want to. Um, and that's like full-time rah-rah. This is all over. And yeah. And I never really experienced having that here. And I and in hindsight, I have probably come across as really intense to some people. What? I know. Shocker. Um, and you've experienced me in different ways that I just I bulldoze things and I I am aware. I'm aware because I just I don't I don't I just I want I don't want people to feel left out. So anytime I see things of like how can I bring somebody along? How can I connect someone to somebody else? How can I make somebody feel loved? How can I make sure they feel like they have a seat at the table?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:00

The same way that we do this this podcast, because we imagine you're sitting right with us.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

Oh, I do, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:07

Um we turn beat red like you're sitting here with us when we say something embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:13

All right, very inappropriate.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:14

Um, you know, and we wouldn't stop the way that we say it. It's just it is who it is and it's who we are. So I would not change one thing about living in Utah. I am so thankful for that time. I miss the people, I miss the kindness, I miss the mountains, I miss so much of that um here. But the the parts of who I was designed to be are still, you know, yeah, they were groomed there, they were watered there, um, despite it being a really different climate. So I hope this has answered some of your Utah questions. If you have more, feel free to send me a message, text me, DM me. Um, I am always open to a conversation. And again, like I said, these were all my experiences living there. Um the people who are part of the Latter-day Saint religion, the loveliest people I've ever got.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

Even my my former boyfriend's family was very kind and very generous.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:10

So that is a little the the, you know, I've I think that answers most of the questions that we got. If this develops more, uh maybe down the line we'll bring a Utah part two. But honestly, you know, I love the dynamic that Casey and I I think Ken, let me just say this. You and I are in such a similar wavelength on so many things. Yeah. But we came to everything in such different ways.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

A hundred percent.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

The way that we were raised were so different. I moved around, you stayed put, you kind of had your wild rebellious stage. Not gonna be full early on. Full on. And I wrestled with any sort of rebellious if I had a lustful thought. I was like, oh my gosh, I'm going down. You know? I mean, that's just kind of, you know. Yeah. But in the end, we ended up in the same place. We ended up in the same place. And so Which is a God who loves us. Yeah. I would just say that to anybody who's listening, I don't care, you know, you may have never stepped foot in Utah. You may have never set foot in a church, or you may have set foot in a church and thought you've been hurt and thought, I can never go back. Let me just tell you the Lord loves you. He has a plan for you. And it may have taken you on routes that you could never explain. Uh you may have had to ingest green jello with uh carrots. Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:24

I was doing green jello, but mine had vodka in it. Yeah, mine did not. Mine did not.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

And maybe and maybe what you had to ingest was, you know, listen, maybe you didn't have to ingest any jello. Maybe what you ingested was, you know, hurt from you know somebody um inside the church or around it. Um, what we can say is God loves you. And um, that's really the whole point. So thanks for listening to our stories this week. And um, we will see you next week. Bye. Bye.