We’re Not Bad Friends—We’re Just Tired

SPEAKER_03 0:05

Hello and welcome back to Kind of Preachy. I am Steph Moore and I'm with Casey Bryant. And we are here, we are recording in the morning today, which is not our normal. No, it's Saturday morning. Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

But you're fully like done up makeup and everything, and I legitimately rolled out of bed.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

I don't know what possessed me. Actually, I just woke up not. I worked from home. You're gorgeous, but I mean I feel like a slob over here. I worked from home the last two days, which generally, even when I have work from home days, I still go into work. Yeah. I just sometimes I just feel, but I don't know. I have the opportunity to. So coming into an empty office sometimes just keeps me laser focused. Like there's just no distractions. Yes. But I basically have been in my pajamas for 48 hours. And so I got up today and I'm like, I'm leaving the house. That makes sense. I get it. I'm gonna get done up. So I would not say this is what I normally look like on a Saturday morning, but I just thought I'd look nice for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Saturdays are some of the rare days where I get to sleep in because I don't have to work out at 5 30 in the morning and wake up at 4 50.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

So I get that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

So I'm sleeping in as much as I can and rolling out of bed.

SPEAKER_03 1:15

I gotta take a kid to dance in the morning. So it's not like super early. We get to all sleep in till like a solid 8:15.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

I did leave my youngest by herself still asleep.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

So I don't know what's gonna happen when she's gonna be fine. She's gonna she's gonna figure it out. There's food. There's food in the house. She's she should be fine. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

So last week, and I feel like we've touched on this in like previous episodes, but I had said something to the notion of something about friendships. And I think we've touched on it a little bit. Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

You talked about you specifically how a friend came up to you and said, You're too much for her. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah. I wasn't gonna mention the exact same thing.

unknown 1:58

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

I just want to just dig that little knife.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

And I did. I did. Well, you know. Just letting people know why. I I did uh one person specifically like reached out and she goes, I'm so sorry that somebody said that to you. And I was like, it was so kind. And the one thing I thought was that is like not even in the top 10 meanest things that somebody has said to me.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

I when we left that episode, I thought of so many more things of because I don't know why. Like I was drawing blanks, and all of a sudden when I left, I'm like, oh, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:33

But you know what? Because some of those things were probably not meant to be repeated. And I think that's why we had brain blocks on them. True. And I that's okay. Yeah. That's okay, that's okay. But as I was thinking about it, I I feel like I've talked a lot about friendship stories that have gone awry. And I thought, oh my gosh, maybe people think I have no friends. You do have friends, don't you? I do I do, I do. But I it has been a lifelong struggle to keep, maintain, and build friendships because I seasons keep changing. Well, and you've moved like from growing up, which couldn't have been easy either. Yeah, so I've had two big moves in my life growing up. So my friends are not the people that I've grown up with. Yeah. But also I've had moves of heart that has taken me out of places, and so even I'm in the same place I am regionally, you know, for a long time. Yeah, things have changed. And I really started to think about what does it look like to build friendships or maintain friendships in this stage of life? We being in our mid-40s, I noticed in my 30s really when friendships started to change. Yeah. And I think it's because we were at you're in the thick of parenting, you have massive capacity, you're freaking exhausted. And now I'm like, okay, how is it changed now? And I think it's because not only am I full of capacity, yes, my hormones are absolutely feral. There is no filter anymore. I I no, my ability to hold things back now. I thought like when people got older and they lose their filter, I viewed that as a nursing home. Yeah, no, it's that's not. It's not. It definitely must have started now. And I feel like my confidence has built in the, you know, like I just my tolerance level for things is way down. Yeah. And I have to imagine, if some people thought I was too much before, I really may be that now for some people. I know. Look at her.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

I wish we had this so you could see the face. Yes. I do not wish that we had video today, especially.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

Well, you know, if you're like, but okay, so you said you you feel like your tolerance, people's tolerance for you is is less. Or I think it's vice versa, too. I mean, it's both. Yes. Well, that makes sense. Have you have you felt it or have you seen it happen? Or is it just something that's in your mind that you're just perceiving?

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Oh, well, I know my tolerance for other people is lower. Yes. So I have to imagine that that is the same way for others and me.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

I know my tolerance for others is lower. I used to love going to concerts and outs and shows. I would rather sit at home than go out nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 5:44

I don't know if that's a COVID thing that changed because I do feel like I think it was before, even me before.

SPEAKER_00 5:50

You think before COVID.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

But I mean, that all feels like a fever dream to begin with.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

But true.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

I don't, I don't dig crowds anymore. I agree. I don't, I don't want to sit sticky next to people where our skin is touching.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

No, and even because Doug and I talked about it, he's like, hey, we can, you know, someone gave us tickets to uh, you know, the Bengals game, do you want to go? And we're both like, we thought about it and we're like, uh no, I'd rather sit at home and watch it on TV where it's comfortable. And if I want to turn it off, I can turn it off.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

We have season tickets to UK basketball, University of Kentucky. If you're not from this area, that's where we he and I are both alumni from. It has been a really rough season for us.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Except for that last game.

SPEAKER_03 6:30

Oh, amazing.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Oh, that last minute shot.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Moreno, I think it was like 0.25 seconds left on the shot clock, and we won the game against LSU, which was this is the second time we've done this in Louisiana, New Orleans. So pretty incredible. All that being said, it has been a really rough season. Yeah. And we don't we share the tickets with his brother, so we get about half of the games. And sometimes I don't want to experience him experiencing a game in public.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Because especially when they're not doing well.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

When we're not doing well.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

No, it's it's ugly.

SPEAKER_03 7:03

It's real ugly.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

I always think about recording my recording Doug when we're watching football games, hockey games, because you know, he completely becomes a coach and knows exactly what they should do and screams at them.

SPEAKER_03 7:14

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 7:15

Um, doing the wrong play.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Early in our marriage, I had to ban my husband from holding things during games because I we broke all these remotes. Like, you know, like the backs would no longer go back on. And we went through, I believe, two cell phones. Uh-huh. And I'm like, you can't throw, we are poor. You can't throw a cell phone.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

But it's so going back to friends, especially if you've been married and like us, we've been married for a long time. Like, okay, so that is probably our closest friend, even though we've, you know, you hear these stories or stories, or people have said, do not make your husband or your spouse your best friend. You need to have somebody of the same sex as your best friend.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

I do remember hearing that advice. I do look at my husband as my best friend, but then I also have my other best friend that I'm like, I would not be able to do life without her. True. And in seasons when we haven't been in sync, it is it feels weird.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

So that best friend, yeah, when you're not in sync in seasons with your husband, do they agree with you and bash your husband, or do they say, okay, I understand, but hey, you probably should talk to talk to Matt.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

I feel really lucky with the one person that I'm talking about. Hile Ann.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Hile Ann.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

She has been, I you hear this term ride or die now, which I don't think was a term when we were younger. No. She has helped me filter things because there's been times that I've been extremely angry at my husband and I've been able to filter it through her first. So by the time I've talked to my husband, because honestly, if I gave my husband my raw unfiltered thoughts all the time, I don't know if he could handle them. I don't know if they should be able to handle them. I don't know if I should be able to just say it. And not saying he doesn't get that sometimes. But there's sometimes when I've things that I've been stewing out of something's been bothering me. I will go to her and just kind of lay it all out. And she has been really gracious to me to say, Well, have you thought about your role in this?

SPEAKER_00 9:32

I think that's that's when you can see the a true friendship. One who does automatically agree with your with us, you know, when when we're venting and we're angry and we're spewing everything out, all all the hate against, you know, whatever's going on in our life, and can look at it objectively and be like, I I understand why you're coming from that, but have you ever thought of this? Or, you know, maybe not even trying to correct.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

I'm not saying that we haven't, you know, like shared anger. Of course. Of course. Because there have been different times I've been upset and it's been justified. And she's like, Yes, I am also mad. True story. And vice versa. Yeah. But that relationship with her is rare.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

And how long have you guys been friends?

SPEAKER_03 10:21

Oh, don't make me do math. You know I'm bad at that.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Like 20s, 30s. We were college roommates. Oh, oh, okay. So for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 10:29

Yeah. So we got engaged around the same time, we got married around the same time, we had our babies.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:35

In similar time.

SPEAKER_00 10:37

So no matter what, she has always been the one person in your the constant friend.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

She has been the constant in my adult life.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Because that's, I think that's what we see as women, especially that we have friendships that don't always last. There are just seasons of friends. Yes. And looking back, even on my life, I can see, you know, people who I was best friends with and who were in, and I didn't think it was going to be a season, and now they're no longer in my life. And I'm like, oh.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

And how do you deal with that when somebody has been in a season and has been monumentally important in your life? And then they're not?

SPEAKER_00 11:16

I don't know. I mean, it it's it's as I'm stuttering. It's hard, but also with the realization for me that I'm grateful for what they did and how they were in my life. And I appreciate everything they did. And I also understand that I can't maintain that many friendships. Especially as I'm getting older. Where, you know, hot high school, college, and even in my early 20s, I, you know, friends everywhere in multiple friend groups. And that has narrowed down to a very small group of people for me now.

SPEAKER_03 11:57

I I would 100% agree with you. Not only has it, I would say in my situation, it is much smaller. When I speak about Leanne, she does not live in the same state as me.

SPEAKER_02 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

So we talk on the phone, we text. It's not 100% like she, you know, like this week she's been on my heart, and I've wanted to just I actually reached out to her daughter and I was like, I want to get your mom a pedicure, but I have no idea what salon she goes to. Yeah. You know, and it's it's I grieve a little bit about doing the same season, like when she was here, I could just pick her up and I would just take her to go get the pedicure. And we can't do that the same way. But I also look at people who are in my life now, and then I see there's still a little bit of me who has jealousy when I look at people who have maintained groups of friends. I have maintained individual relationships. I have never maintained a group of friends. Have you been able to do that?

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Oh, yes. But I'm different because you've Because I live in the same city that I've always lived in. And so there I had like a group of seven really close girlfriends, five of us who grew up from some of us from preschool on. And there's five of us who are still really close. Now, do we see each other all the time? No, we maybe get together maybe once a year because our lives are just so chaotic with children and and all that's going on. But anything happens, like one of them, you know, she she just had surgery, and we will all rally together and bring meals or send silly gifts or do whatever to support her. And and that's what that's just what who we are. And so, like when everything was going down with Doug last year, like they showed up like you wouldn't believe. But they've always been a part of my life. They are my closest friends, and I've known them for the longest, for the longest time. They know me, they know all the good and the bad about me.

SPEAKER_03 14:13

So when you talk about not being able to see people for a long time, so it's it's I mean it's definitely because you have less margin in your life. Yes. So do you miss when you had more?

SPEAKER_00 14:24

Do I miss when I had more margin in my life? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:27

When I So I I I I think and you and I are in a really kind of a different situation that we are still actively parenting a younger child. I mean, a lot of my friends who are our age, they uh it's they're at high school or they are beyond this point. They're doing the college student.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And I have a mix of of friends. Some friends who have who are already empty nesters, and some friends who still have high schoolers, and some friends who still have are in the same boat that I am within this, within this group. And it is still hard with margin. And when we did get together, because we did get together a lot in our 20s, because we had we had no kids, we had no responsibility, like that was, or some of us, maybe only one of us had a child, and so we were able to get babysitters much easier than than it is now. And you would think that as it is now, that it would be easier because our kids are older, but I don't, it's just crazy how life happens, and the older you get, the more I don't want to say complacent, but almost complacent I am of just being home. But I know when I go out, when I go out with them, every single time I'm like, man, I should have I should be doing this more often. Because I don't know how much I need that relationship, those relationships until I'm actually with them.

SPEAKER_03 15:50

Yeah. Yeah. I was thinking about like kind of biblically like friendships and what that looks like. And you know, like when we look at the different sets of friends or people that we see in the Bible of like examples of friendship. Yeah. Well, we just saw the David movie. Did you see it? I have not seen that yet. So it was kind of a cartoonish-y movie, but it was a really beautiful story of David growing up, and you and you see the story of David and Jonathan.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:24

And you get to see, I don't think it super focused on it, but it did make me think of every year going through the Bible recap of, you know, like you spend a lot of time getting to know David and Jonathan because the way that that's broken up, like you spend a lot of time focusing on that friendship. And there was a scene in the movie that just kind of recalled to me, it was, you know, where Jonathan chose David, his friend. Yes. Over his dad. Over his dad. And I thought, whoa, that's big. And then I kind of flipped my brain over to New Testament. And, you know, we're looking at, you know, the way that Jesus, and obviously he's got disciples, and I would say they're friends. Oh, yes. But also he's in a different relationship. But their community with one another is friends.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Well, they leave their families.

SPEAKER_03 17:16

They leave their families. Like, this is who I'm doing life with. Yeah. You know, and then I read letters of people, you know, like these are people that they care about, you know, like going back of like, hey, I'm not with you, but this is what I want for you. This is what I see. This is, man, I've been had the opportunity to be taught this. And like, I need every person I've interacted with, and down, I like you all need to hear this truth, right? So there's all of this, and I think there's so much encouragement in friendships. There's so much encouragement in making sure that you're sharing wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

And because it's it's the family you chose. Yes. It's the it's not the family, and I love my family, but it's not the family you were born with. It's a family that you chose. And sometimes we pick winners, and sometimes Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:08

So we don't and I do think the friendships that have lasted are the ones that are incredibly deep. Yes. That we are living in that. But it is interesting that I still have a yearning for the woo-hoo friends.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

Yeah. Well, it it makes sense, especially, you know, because you've you've talked about, you know, walking into a church or going to a women's group and just not where you sh think you should find friends and connections. And it they just have not, they've been all surface level. Is that am I saying correctly?

SPEAKER_03 18:42

Uh yes. I have a hard time with surface level friendships because I just I think I automatically want to go deep with people.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

To the point where I know like maybe it's not ready. Like, so I get why, but I how do you start and build to those so you can get to those places?

SPEAKER_00 19:03

So besides my my girlfriends that I've had for a long time, I've had a really, really close friend since my very first job. She was she was with me, and it was service level for a very long time until it became came deep. And it was just over time. I mean, legitimately, that's what it took. And her, she's the one who invited me to church, and she's the one who talked about, you know, maybe there's there's something better for me besides what I was doing. And but the funny thing is also when we first met, we were on the corners. That sounds really bad. That is not what I meant, Nancy. I'm sorry, I did not mean that. But we we were both smokers, and so like during work, we would go on the city. I had no idea where you were going. That sounded really bad. So we were both on the corner. No, we would go both go outside and and smoke cigarettes. It was, I mean, that's how our relationship, because that's what we did, and then we both quit and you know, and our our relationship became deeper. She's she's actually the first person when I confessed. I confessed to her first. And what when I confess, I confessed my affair, which we all heard that story before, but I I honestly confessed to her first at a church function where we were supposed to like turn around, turn to somebody and and repent and confess something, and they're gonna forgive you. And it just came out of my mouth. And I remember her looking at me and going, Okay, Casey. Her eyes got real big, and then she looked at me, she's like, You're forgiven, you're loved.

SPEAKER_03 20:41

Which truly that's incredible. I mean, not that I mean, I know I understand that was the exercise, but for I dropped a bomb for anybody to have a bomb dropped on them, and for someone to just immediately react that way, knowing that their brain is probably trying to even fully process like what I said. Yes, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:02

And then for for a little bit, I thought that was good enough. But she's also the one who encouraged me and and guided me. And so I you have you have those friends, but those those friends are because for me, it maybe started off surface level level, smoking cigarettes, doing stupid things. And even my friends, same thing. Like we were drinking and all the things, and then our relationships became deeper as we got older and more mature and a little bit wiser.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

And I think one of the things that I when I look at and I and I like say that I mourn a little bit of not having the larger group is Let me think of how I want to phrase this. I when you are able to be deep with somebody. Yeah. It is so fulfilling. And I think and I know it's it's quantity over or quality over quantity. You can say that backwards. But there are some people that you know you kind of wish that you could just break a boundary. You know what I mean? Just you know, just break not a boundary, but like you could just have a breakthrough a little bit. Either they have never experienced that and you want them to experience it. I don't know. I think it's the same thing if we've talked about we don't get to be that person for everybody. We don't get to be and we can't be. No, you're right. Yeah, absolutely. There's there's boundaries. But I know so many people who aren't experiencing life in the same way that I am with with real people, and they are just caught up in every single aspect of their family. And they have nobody outside of that. There's nobody outside of that.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

That is that is hard. Because you can't, you have to have, in my mind, and and biblically, it says you need community. Yeah. You have to have people outside to hang on to because this is what's gonna happen. No matter what, your children, especially if everything is focused around your kids, your kids are eventually going to go away. They're going to leave the house, they're going to, and if everything, your whole lives have been focused on that, there is going to become a time where I think a lot of us go through where we just go through this whole entire self-identity depression of like, who am I now? Because I focus my whole life on being, you know, the best mom, the best wife, whatever, you know, to during the season. And now, now, especially as we're getting older, they're in college or they're starting their own careers or they're getting engaged or whatever. Who who am I now?

SPEAKER_03 23:55

Yeah, I think it's hard. And if you and if you if you're married, if you're not married, you know, or and so then trying to find friends with after this season, it it that feels like the biggest uphill battle that you can ever find. And I have, you know, quite a few friends who have gone through divorce. Oh, yeah. So they're not in the same stage of me as me. But also I have a a few friends who for what they're they've just not found a partner in life. Yeah. Ever. And same. They're kind of like, you know, like aunts to my kids. You know what I mean? But I also know that they have that deep, you know, like that connection in a relationship, like a married relationship, they just haven't had to have, they haven't gotten to experience.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Or my friends who are divorced, they've experienced it and they've grieved it and it's gone now. And all of a sudden your situation doesn't look like so. When situationally, like life circumstances don't look the same when you've done life because you've kind of done it together and all of a sudden everything looks different.

SPEAKER_02 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:11

Either because your life has changed, or everybody feels like life has changed and yours has not. How do we continue to stay engaged with people when they're not walking the same path that we are? Because you know, you always hear that like churchy term, like doing life together. Yeah. You know, what happens when it like how do you maintain friendships when like life doesn't look like you can do it together anymore?

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Yeah, that's a great question because all that happened to me when I left my my job and when I left my church. All of those friends who I thought were friends never some of them never even reached out.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

And I think that is also the the the reality of understanding like there's seasons and there's people who say that they're they're friends of yours. And when circumstances change and you're no longer in their life 24-7, or not 24-7, but you're no longer in your life, you have to look back and go, oh, maybe, maybe they weren't they weren't really my my friend at all. They were just there because of I was somebody who maybe had a position that was important. Or I was just there and I was fun to talk, not fun to talk to, but you know.

SPEAKER_03 26:34

But I get that. I mean, there's been times in my life where my kids have played sports and you know, well, for the most part in the dance, you know, that you know, you're in this season with dance moms for a long time. Swim for me, swim, you know, like you know, like you're doing the football moms, yeah, all all all of the amounts and yes, you know, that kind of seems like a dynamic, you know, and then your kid graduates or your kid is not, and then all of a sudden, like your your schedule looks different, your time looks different. And I I know when my oldest, the majority of her team was a year younger. And so they continued to go on. And I remember like when she went from eighth grade to ninth grade, so she went from the middle school team to the high school team. It was like, I saw the middle school team, I was like, oh, I miss those people. But by the time they had gone through the whole like eighth graders and then moved back on, like those didn't seem the same. I'm not saying those were my closest friends, but it was just like a glimpse to me of like, oh, that you can't there's some things you can't recapture.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

No. And they and they only happen because of the circumstances. Yes. So those friendships are only there because of the circumstance you're in, because you're a sports mom or an activity mom, whatever it is, and you are with those people at every single of sporting event or play or whatever, whatever it is. Academic team, it doesn't matter. You are with them all the time.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:05

And then and then you're not. And or if your child decides to stop doing that activity, which happened with Faith when she was, she was dancing, she was on a competitive dance team for many, many years. And you know, we with these moms, I was we were in hotels because you know the dance competition was, you know, wherever it was, and we had to, you know, stay the night and all these friendships that and bonds that we had in the minute that she quit, crickets.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

Yeah. I mean, you were doing life because life was exactly those things. And then your brain confuses those relationships and bonds because when things change, it's but you have to realize where those who who are who are my my true friends.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Those are absolutely friends. Yeah. And and and some of them I I still talk to and we'll we'll text back and forth, not nearly as much. But those, as much as I love them, those aren't my deep friendships. Those aren't your people. Those aren't my people. I I am grateful and I know how lucky I am to have the people that I have. Yeah. The friends that I have. I know that that is probably extremely rare to still have the same friends that you've had since preschool.

SPEAKER_02 29:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

That's that's not normal. I understand that, and I am so blessed for them. And I also am so grateful for the people who were in my lives when I needed them in my lives. For the people who were there for a season. And I think that's what it is. Like looking back at that is like in looking back at those friends and and understanding, okay, they maybe the friendship didn't last as long as I wanted it to. But man, I'm grateful that I had them because they were important and I needed them. And it's almost like God said, You don't know this, but you need them for this period of time.

unknown 30:04

Boop.

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Put them in your life. And then after that, because I no one goes into these friendships and sees them wanting them to fade away. It's like legitimately, you just look and be like, oh my gosh, I haven't talked to that person in like a year. And I used to talk to them every single day. Or and then you're like, okay, well.

SPEAKER_03 30:26

If I were to look at, you know, these oh so if I were to look at my bridal party. And I just wonder, you know, for those who got who've been married, yeah. If you look at your bridal party, how many of them do you still speak to?

SPEAKER_00 30:42

All of them.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Do you not talk to any of them?

SPEAKER_00 30:49

This is so embarrassing.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Hardly any of them. And it's not that I have any issues with any of them. No. My maid of honor was someone who I met in the sixth grade, and we were incredibly close until we had kids. Yeah. And I remember when she I had a baby first, still maintained. And when she announced that she was pregnant, and we were in different states. Yeah. I really thought, oh my gosh, this is gonna bring us so much closer. And it didn't at all. Like it really was like that was the that was the division. Fascinating. I know it was so weird. And I thought, oh gosh, we we'd become, we were gonna become closer. And it just, it just didn't happen. Yeah. Our, you know, our parenting styles were different. We were not in the same location. And it just, it just, it just didn't. And then I found myself we're just the people who I would say send Christmas cards, but I am not a good Christmas card sender, so I'm a good receiver. I love receiving them too. I know, but it was like, I'm like, okay, like I know it's happening because I keep up with you on Facebook, but I'm like, you like you are my maid of honor. And I'm not, this is not a not, I this is just it just it naturally faded. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

It's the reality of what happens. And I would say that that's pretty common. I would say it's very common to look at bridal parties and and realize 20 years later and be like, oh, I really don't talk to any of them anymore.

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Yes. And I will say that Leanne was my college roommate. Yes. But she was not in my wedding.

SPEAKER_00 32:29

Oh, fascinating.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Yeah, she was she was not. No, she was there and she acted as kind of like my little assistant for the day, which was like the most beautiful thing. I was not in her wedding either. We became much closer after we got after we were both married. Yes. And but yeah, I look at my bridal party and I'm like, not that I don't have anything but love for any of these girls. But it wasn't the like ongoing of, you know, like, oh, you know, you're so-and-so. Like my children could look at my wedding picture and honestly not know a single one of them. Like, not in their lives in the least bit.

SPEAKER_00 33:12

Isn't that weird? I no, I think that's more common. I I mean, I think what because once again, it's all my friends that I've known. Yeah. So my bridal party, I still talk to. Now, I I was in some college, some of my college roommates who are my college friends, who I love dearly, who I just don't talk to anymore. And those are the relationships that that really faded that I was in their wedding. I'm sure they're looking at their wedding picture with me in it, going, Oh, oh, who's who's that girl? I don't even know who she who she is. But I love I love you all.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Oh, yeah, this is not about not loving people.

SPEAKER_00 33:52

It was just it's just the fact of life. And the older we get, the harder it is to bring on new friends. So yeah, I think if you're in that phase where you're looking for new friendships, it is so that that is hard. And I don't even know where you go to find them. No, I don't either. Well, besides like a church, and I would say once again, sports activities that your kids do, but once once that's over, in my experience, those relationships kind of fade away.

SPEAKER_03 34:30

Yeah. And I think probably, you know, when I just shared a couple weeks ago of just not feeling super connected in that area. And I know it's like the beginning of the year, and I feel like most churches do like the push for like the whole small group situation making, you know. And I wonder, I'm like, all right, God, like, do you want me to try this again?

SPEAKER_00 34:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

And I I guess I'll throw it to you. I mean, you've kind of you've you've thrown things back and not been a part of the church situation for you know a few months.

SPEAKER_00 35:05

For for half of a year.

SPEAKER_03 35:06

Yeah. I mean, do you feel any call to get back in? I know that we've talked about it. I know, but would I be a really good friend if I didn't ask?

SPEAKER_00 35:15

No, you you true story. No, I I know God is calling me back to a church. I I I know that I can and and some Saturdays I will have every intention of being like, okay, tomorrow's the day. Tomorrow's the day. I'm gonna I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go to church, church shop. I'm gonna go find a church. And I still just sleep in and don't do it. But I know I know God is calling me there. And and I'm justifying my relationship with with God right now and be like, God, I'm I I'm listening to you every single morning. I'm writing down my prayers, I'm writing down things that, you know, with our with our today's hits of like verses that stood out to us that that day. And that has been fun to see people react to those. Yes, it has been. I mean, and it keeps me honest. It keeps me honest. And also at the same time, it keeps me probably from a church because I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm still connected to God. I'm still connected to to some people-ish you.

SPEAKER_03 36:30

Well, you know what? I I had a moment when I was having a selfish, not not maybe that's not even the right term. But I was like, you know what? No, I'm I'm in the I'm in the word. I'm in commune with the people that I need to be. I listen to a lot of sermons online. Like, maybe I just don't need to be a part of a church. Like if it's causing me hurt. Yeah. Or I'm like, if it's this is, if it's this hard, like maybe I just take a step back. And I was really okay with that. And I sit probably sat with that for like 24 hours. And told my husband, I'm like, maybe we just watch it online. If like we like this thing is just not going to work. I like the messages, I like the idea of the things, but the community thing is so freaking hard right now. Yeah. Maybe I just don't, maybe I just don't try right now. And I don't know what I wish I could remember what I heard. I don't know if I feel like it was like when I was reading. And I don't know if it was in like the where we are, like Bible recap, like those. I or maybe it was just something that I read, like, because I do do the U version too, like the daily Bible verse. And I there was something in there it was just like you need community. If you're not doing, if you're doing all of this and you're not doing it in community, then you're missing it. Like you're missing a lot of what's in store for you.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

And I'm like, oh crap. Well, one thing that surprised me more than anything is because during all the situation, like Doug came up to me speaking of churches and and believing, and he's like, I don't even know if I believe in God anymore.

SPEAKER_01 38:17

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

And so for him to and and I'm not gonna pressure him, like this is something that he has to walk through. And I think that's one reason why I didn't push a church, because I think if you if you put push a church too soon when when you're still in pain, it's I think it's gonna it's gonna backfire. But then Doug sent me, my God love my husband, he sent me this verse yesterday, and it's I think it was the verse of the day, and it said, Lord your God is the Lord your God is with you, the mighty warrior who saves. He will take great delight in you, in his love, he will no longer rebuke you, but rejoice, rejoice over you with singing. He said that to me. So I it Is that Zephaniah 3.17? And he said, I feel like 2026 is going to be good. That's that's what I'm crying as I'm saying this. Because for me, it was like this huge breakthrough of when when you talk about my you know, a best friend, he is my best friend, of watching him struggle with what happened with me. And possibly walking away from his faith, and then all of a sudden, I don't know what, I don't know why, of just him falling back in line. And so it did hit me yesterday. I'm like, okay, maybe maybe it's time for a church.

unknown 39:41

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 39:42

Because maybe it is time to find new relationships, new friendships in a different church.

SPEAKER_01 39:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

And I'm sitting here crying. Man, I held my shit together. I haven't cried yet in a long time. I haven't. So Isaiah thought all to say that ma'am, friendships are hard. Yeah. I'm grateful I have a friend within within my spouse.

SPEAKER_02 40:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

And sometimes like I did with Doug and friends, sometimes you have to back away and let them kind of battle their own battles. And same with same with with me, like when I'm battling, sometimes I don't want advice. I don't need to hear all the stuff. I just need my well, it's like Job's friends in the beginning. I just need you to sh sit in the mud and let me work this out on my own. Or vice versa. Which letting Doug work out his his own faith on his own.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

And he did. He did. I think that models, I mean, yeah, you're talking marriage, but you know, that's also this the same thing with friendships, too, that sometimes you have to take a beat. You have to take a step back and let them. I am I'm a fixer. Yeah. By nature. And when I see any injustice in I mean, in anything, I want to jump in, I want to fix it. I I want to commend you because I know how hard that probably was for you not to jump on that and try and fix this for him. Yeah, oh yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:29

And part of it was, I think, because I was just faithful. I mean, I was struggling, but meaning faithful in reading the Bible, and he knew I was reading the Bible every single day. He knew I never gave that up. So he knew the first thing in the morning I would do was is is read. And so I, knowing that he was struggling, knowing that he was debating if God is real, if God is for him, if if if it all exists, I I still read the Bible every day. And I was struggling too. I mean, I still am struggling, but I still believe.

SPEAKER_03 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

I mean, even the verse, this the today, what really hit me was sorry, Sarah. Sarai? Sarai. Gosh, why do I always say her name wrong before it's Sarah? Can't we just go to Sarah? But when she makes a decision for herself to have her, you know, to to get her her her sl I don't want to say slave, it's wrong, but her.

SPEAKER_03 42:32

I think well, yeah, they're her maiden, her missus like the that not saying that those relationships are that was true.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

When she says, Abraham, you're gonna sleep with with my with my person so that I can have a baby, and that actually happens, and then she gets mad for the outcome, and she gets mad at Abraham and not herself. I'm like, man, that's us. Like, we we will take things into our own hands, we will do the things that we want, and the outcome is exactly what we want, and then we realize it's not what we wanted because we took into our hands and it's not what God called us to.

SPEAKER_03 43:10

So it's interesting you said that. So my hit of the day of that was from the the point of the the one who got pregnant. Yes, not not Sarah. Yes, when she tries to flee. Like this is horrible. You know, like she's mad at me, like I did what she told me to do, and now like I'm basically in this like abusive, you know, like she's treating me terribly, and I've and I just did what I'm supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

I did exactly what I was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_03 43:42

She flees. Yes. And it says the angel of the Lord, which, you know, we know is essentially the not essentially, is the preincarnate Jesus, which is wild that, you know, like God Himself stops her in tractors and says, Where are you coming from and where are you going? Yep. And it was that And I had that little thing in me, which is that that fixer part of me. Yeah. And the same with Sarah wanted to fix it, like, well, I let me just put this in my control. In my fix it brain was like, Well, dude, God, you had her in a really crappy situation. Do you blame her for wanting to leave? Absolutely. And I'm not saying that we should stay in really bad situations. So don't hear that. But in this particular situation, when he was asking her to go back, he wasn't saying, like, go back into this place where you were mistreated. Go back into this place of where you were being abused. I he said, go back because I'm going to protect you.

SPEAKER_02 44:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

I want you to go into this place because there's plan and there's purpose for you. Yeah. And I need you to go back. And I just started thinking, oh, how many times like my brain in a relationship, a friendship, in a decision has been in a fight or flight situation. And my because I don't want to get my feelings, either A, I don't want to get my feelings hurt. Yes. I don't want to feel accountable. Yep. Or I'm just scared. I just want to get, I just want to get out of dodge. Yeah. It's easier. And I think as I'm viewing, you know, kind of bringing it back to friendships. When I if I were to ask myself those questions, where am I coming from and where am I going? And if I had to apply that to other people, yeah. Would my role be to reach out to invest? Would it be to sit and to listen? Would it be to show up or to know where have I been? Where am I going? Is it okay to release that one? I think though like those two questions, like got it for me, that was really profound today. There are people that you know, like you've been a part of my past and you'll be a part of it forever. And then there's also the where are you going? And sometimes those paths diverge. Yeah. And you have to be okay with it.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

I think that's the the the the biggest key is we have to be okay when a friendship fades.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

Yeah. It's not easy. It is not easy. And yeah, I also think, you know, like we can't compare old versions of ourselves to today's version. No, I'm not sure. Because today's version of Casey and Steph are very different than what the 20-year-old version is. Yes. Because Casey was on a corner. I was on a corner. Now, what do you think? But you know, you know, like it's just the past versions of ourselves can't be compared to the friendships that we have now because we can't even our marital relationships are different than they were 20-some years ago. I mean, all of us were just so different. I have to get over the fact that I can't fix everybody.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

No. Nor should you.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Nor should I. So I have a high capacity for thinking I'm just a disappointment.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

Because you couldn't fix them.

SPEAKER_03 46:42

Not because I couldn't fix them. I mean, sometimes. Yeah. Or I can't, or I know I don't have a role to fix in it, but I feel so badly. I I feel heartbroken. When you when you love somebody so deeply and you can't change the outcome of something. Yes. Man, I I I that is one of the hardest, you know, when you walk through life and seasons with people and they just are going through it. Yeah. Just going through it. And you can't change it other than just to be with them and just say this sucks.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

That's all you can say sometimes. I know. But I think people would prefer to hear this sucks than to say, Hey, have you tried this? Hey, let me tell you how you could fix it. Or some of the some of the best is when, you know, when you have something tragic, like my both my parents passing away within 14 months of each other. And what people say the people who said, I'm sorry, and that's it. Or the people who said, Man, that sucks.

unknown 47:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:58

And that's it. It's the it's the they're in a better place. It's the, you know, now they're an angel watching over you. Or the biblical. Not biblical. Or or the or the person who's like, I can see dead people, and your mom came to me, and this is what she said about you. And oh, and that as a quote unquote friend, I'm like, you are not a friend. Because that I do not believe that at all. And I do not my the things that were said about that my mom said about me were not very, we're not great.

SPEAKER_02 48:36

So it was Oh my gosh. I think I say like I don't think they realize that it was not. I was gonna say pulling back on friendships is is it feels hard, but maybe that person should have.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

But it's it's just that's just the because people do it in the name of helping. Yeah, people friends do it in the name of I am trying to fix, I am trying to make you feel better. I am trying to fix you. Which also goes into like horrible things people have said to us in the name of God or in the name of I want you, I'm trying to help you. And sometimes as as friends, and I same with me, like I don't need to fix it. I don't need to tell you anything that's trying to make it better. I just need to shut my mouth and say, Man, this sucks. And I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_03 49:24

And I mean, I guess I should also reflect that there's probably been times that we have been the people that have pulled back.

SPEAKER_00 49:31

Yeah, oh I that a hundred percent. No, that is true. I have I have in this season, especially in my life, I have pulled back. Yeah. And I so I can't blame people. No, no, no, no. And I just yeah, because I went to my other statement saying that, you know, when I left, all of a sudden all those friends are gone. I also didn't put in the effort.

SPEAKER_03 49:53

Yeah. And I think sometimes when you pull back, it's not rejection, it's regulation of where you are.

SPEAKER_00 50:01

Yeah. So some of them, because I I could not stay, it would not have been healthy for me.

SPEAKER_03 50:09

Or for them. Yeah. Or for them.

SPEAKER_00 50:11

For either either side. Same, same. I I had to I had to make hard decisions for my own mental health and my own relationship with God and my own relationship even with them. And I think that's probably the hardest thing we have to do sometimes, especially as women, is we have to look at some of our friendships and say, and I'm not saying with reason, but in general, is this healthy for me? Yeah. Is this a healthy friendship? Is this friendship building me up or is this friendship tearing me down?

SPEAKER_02 50:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:51

Because we've all had friends that can tear that have tear torn us down, torn us down. Is that right, or is that the right English language?

SPEAKER_03 50:58

I understood it either way.

SPEAKER_00 51:00

Thank you. Great. And so I think that's one rule that I always have to go by and discern. Is this person building me up? Or are they tearing me down?

SPEAKER_03 51:12

I also love that you you just used the word discern because I think one of the things that we haven't touched on is the to be an active community in a friendship. Yes. It means we should be praying for those people. Oh, absolutely. And you should be praying for who you are in that friendship. And discerning how to move forward, you know, with with conversations with, you know, with and I know I have not been the best friend.

SPEAKER_00 51:44

Even to my to the to the girls who I'm closest with, I know that I have not have not been the best friend, especially within the past couple few years. I have pulled back.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yeah. Well I think. Yes, you may have pulled back on some of these things. And maybe it was because it needed to. Maybe not. I don't know. I know that we want in this stage of our life, depth is more important than frequency. Yeah. That we have to have grace over, you know, expectations. Yes. Because shoot, I don't even mate my own expectations. Like the things that I want out of other people sometimes, I don't meet for them or even for myself.

SPEAKER_00 52:33

True story. But I think that's what's wonderful sometimes about these friendships is you have people who have different, well, I'll say love languages, who are incredible at that, who are, you know, incredible gift givers, and that brings them so much joy. So I do have friends who just love gifting stupid funny stuff to make you laugh because that brings them so much joy. I am not the best at that. I'm not the best at making meals. So whenever there's like a meal train, I'm not the best person for that. I I absolutely hate it.

SPEAKER_03 53:09

I do like on those things now, it's just a send a gift card.

SPEAKER_00 53:12

That that's my favorite. That is I do like so much. So so much my favorite. Because I'm like, that's what I would prefer it to prefer that.

SPEAKER_03 53:18

Yeah. I honestly I would probably prefer that over a pasta meal.

SPEAKER_02 53:23

Yeah. Yes. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 53:26

I mean, I appreciate the sentiment of, and I will never forget, you know, in in days when people would bring us meals during different seasons of life, babies and surgeries and you know, like all that stuff. But I I think as we kind of close, I think one of the things that we hadn't highlighted that I feel like would be important, I would don't want to miss saying, is in when life is extremely busy, yeah, to stay connected even when it's quiet. That's what I'm that's what I need from a friend. Yeah. And I need that reminder to be that for the people who maybe they're not in my direct radar, they're not, you know, I don't think less of them. I don't think less of our friendship, you know, keep fine. But I also have seen ones that they friendships that maybe I didn't want to fade because both of us didn't put in the effort. And maybe it was for whatever reason. Yeah. But in a season right now, like when you were in a in your initial season of I'm not ready to talk. Yeah. And I said, okay, we don't have to talk about it. Yeah. But I still found it important to check in with you until I thought maybe you might be ready.

SPEAKER_00 54:40

No, and I'm grateful for that that you did multiple times until I finally said, Okay, let's meet.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

And it took, it took Yeah, I think you we canceled, I think you canceled three times.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

A few. I think I canceled only three times before I finally said yes.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

And I for me, I and this was actually a big thing for me that I didn't take it personally.

SPEAKER_02 55:00

It just huge because it wasn't, it wasn't you. It was a hundred percent but I can't.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

I know in my nature, like I take things personally easily.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

And I think that's what sometimes hurts friendships. Like that's what sometimes helps that well, yeah, in a way helps friendships fade is because we start making a dialogue in our own head on why this person is no longer reaching out or they're they're short. And and sometimes it's just because they're going through something and they just aren't ready to to deal with it or to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 55:32

Yeah. So I think, you know, limited capacity doesn't mean you have limited love for this person. It just means they just can't let it out at that moment.

SPEAKER_00 55:40

Yeah. And we didn't solve the problem. How do you make friends when you're older?

SPEAKER_03 55:45

I think it's an ongoing thing. I don't think in every time that we sit and have a conversation, there's always going to be a resolution.

SPEAKER_00 55:52

No.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

I think God isn't asking us to be everything for everyone, but we have to show up lovingly and faithfully and just keep praying for that we're in the right path of the right people. And I think it's that we're receptive to those reaching out to us in the same way.

SPEAKER_00 56:11

And I think it's also expectations, setting your expectations of maybe you aren't going to find the woo-hoo group. But maybe you're gonna you have the one or two people who God's like same with Dave and Jonathan, like John, they one person. Yeah. Maybe it's just the one person that you need in your life.

SPEAKER_03 56:33

Yeah. So I think in finding and building relationships, I think no, we don't have a 10-step plan of how to find a new friend.

SPEAKER_00 56:42

No.

SPEAKER_03 56:44

But we can tell you that in whatever season you're in, if you felt guilt on losing a friendship or one not going the way that you thought, or you've or maybe you you haven't been the friend that you wanted to be. I think this is just a reminder to release the guilt of that, extend grace, and honor the season that people are in. Yep. And honor your own season and just keep praying for your friendships the same way you pray for your spouse, the same way you pray for your children. You know, these pray for these relationships, you know, like absolutely. And I know I'm guilty of the like I think about them and I have that thought.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

But typically, when a friend jumps onto your mind, there's a reason why. And if that happens, always reach out.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

I I think reach out, but also like even before reaching out, lean into praying for them. Yeah. And not just the like, God, I just thought about this person and just want you to be with him in this moment.

SPEAKER_00 57:49

Like, truly. And when I say reaching out, reaching out can be a simple text of like, hey, you're on my mind.

SPEAKER_03 57:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

Thinking about you.

SPEAKER_03 57:57

But maybe not right after someone just did like a vague Facebook post.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

I hate. Can we talk about the vague Facebook posts? Like the, hey, can you pray for me? I can't talk about it. I'm sorry. That that drives me nuts. If if you're putting that on there, then you need to go to your closest friends.

SPEAKER_03 58:19

Well, that's, you know, honestly, that's a whole other thing with social media and like us having parasocial relationships with even people that we're friends with when you're learning things online instead of like learning them. Like Leanne, she not that I feel like we have a parasocial relationship, but she sent me a voice message just a few weeks ago and she said, I learned something in your podcast and I didn't learn it from you, and I did not like that.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Oh, that's happened to me too, though, with articles like for you sharing, you know.

SPEAKER_03 58:46

So I'm like, WTF. Seriously? I'm like, oh that's a whole different conversation. That's a whole different conversation. Probably not even for next week, but you know what? I we have laughed, we have cried, and yeah, I I treasure our friendship. And and even though we can't hear you guys on the other way, we absolutely love the feedback that we get from you, where you just even say, like, man, that was a good one, or just I needed to hear that. Or even if it's just like, man, I just feel like I'm sitting in the room with my girlfriends. Like, this is why we're doing it, and we are so glad you're here. We'll see you next week.